Episode 18
Vanessa MW: Creating wealth while abroad in Germany

Gemütlichkeit in Munich

Gemütlichkeit.

No! Not Gesundheit…

Gemütlichkeit.

It doesn't have the same ring to it like the French joie de vivre, or the Italian La Dolce Vita. Both of those describe a philosophy of pleasure and joy of life.

Gemütlichkeit is very similar but much less discussed outside of Germany. Inside Germany, this is one of the most important cultural and social concepts. Literally meaning comfort, Gemütlichkeit is a way of building a world rooted in coziness, friendliness, warmth, and good cheer. It requires other people. It's about the peace of mind and sense of well-being you get from being around your friends and family.

There's no city in Germany built more around the idea of Gemütlichkeit than Munich. Munich is the capital city of Bavaria, and sits right at the foothills of the Alps along the Isar River, which flows through the city. Although it's only Germany's fifth largest city, Munich holds an outsize proportion of what visitors think of Germany. A lot of what you might consider to be quintessentially German is really only quintessentially Bavarian, like Oktoberfest, big steins of beer, blue and white checkered flags everywhere, and Lederhosen. In Munich, on the subway, you can see people... Millennials and Gen Z types, wearing Lederhosen unironically.

Making a life in Munich

Roughly 1.5 million people live in Munich. And while 108,000 American expats called Germany home, only 6800 or so live in Munich. But expat life in Munich is pretty sweet. The industrious Germans don't have siestas or Ripossos like in Spain or Italy, but they value these long periods of rest and relaxation and fresh air. Grandparents, parents and their teenagers going through a metal or punk phase will all still sit together to drink a Stein of beer on a Sunday afternoon.

There's something that - to an American sensibility - feels so European in Munich. First of all, you're in the center of Europe: Austria, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, France, Italy, even the Czech Republic are all bordering nations, pretty close either over, around or through the Alps. Munich also balances an eternally Old World vibe with modern aspects that make it one of the most livable large cities in Europe. Priority here is given to pedestrians, cyclists, and mom and pop shops.

Rather than head out of the city to suburban shopping malls, the people of Munich really use their downtown. They go food and retail shopping on foot right in the Kaufingerstrasse area of downtown Munich. This includes the Viktualienmarkt, the city's oldest farmers market that's been in operation in its current location since 1807, after expanding beyond its capacity of the nearby Marienplatz. The Marienplatz is just as much the heart of Munich today as it was in the 12th century when it was established. Today you'll see street performers, restaurants and sprawling tables outside with minds and musicians performing and of course, bratwurst and beer. But many, many tourists will also head to the famous Hofbrauhaus, a three-floor beer hall dating back to the 16th century, where everyday feels like Oktoberfest, at least to the tourists.

The English Garden and… well… Nudity…

Another unmissable spot for tourists, as well as locals and local expats is the famous English Garden, a sprawling public park that stretches for miles and is larger than both Central Park in New York City and Hyde Park in London. There are boating lakes, countless jogging and biking paths, monuments, and several beer gardens inside this park as well. You might be noticing a theme with all these beer gardens, but this isn't because Munich is riddled with alcoholism. While beer is very much essential. Spending time with friends and family is the actual point and doing so outside in public with a beer. It's just the way to enjoy life. Although Munich and wider Bavaria is one of the more Religious and conservative parts of Germany, you can live comfortably and freely in a way that we in the United States could never imagine.

Now, when I say live freely, I'm not necessarily talking about all the nudity. But I'm also not not talking about that. Munich has six designated nudist zones, which are called FKK locations. FKK stands for Freikorperultur or free body culture. There are even two FKK spots at the famous English Garden. Imagine a nudist colony in Central Park!

A life of freedom in Germany

But the real freedom is the way you're able to spend your time out in the fresh air, doing things that two Americans might seem romantic, but to Germans just seems like a basic human right. Sure, I mean drinking in public, but also the way you can just use your space. For example, in Munich, right outside the zoo, there's a secret little spot also on the Isar river where you can sit on the riverbank, relax, just take a dip in the river, right in the heart of the city. Only locals go, and it's an incredibly relaxing way to spend the afternoon. Inside the English Garden, there's actually a spot where people, even corporate workers on their lunch break, surf.

Enjoying life in Munich often means leaving the city for the Alpine foothills where you'll find lakes like Starnberg or Ebersburg. You can relax by the lake, explore the small villages, have lunch in a local beer garden in the town center, and look out on architecture that might have been standing there for nearly 1000 years. Munich is home to major global brands like BMW, Puma, Airbus, and those who live in Munich are an industrious bunch. It's just that relaxation and Gemütlichkeit are simply taken as seriously as work.

Meet Vanessa MW, an American expat in Germany

Life in Munich can feel for most like “all work and all play”. This is also the perfect description of today's guest Vanessa MW, founder of Wander Onwards. In many ways, Vanessa is the absolute opposite of all that traditional talk about Munich. Vanessa breaks all tradition while breaking new ground and glass ceilings.

She's a proud Chicana originally from Los Angeles, and has lived abroad for over seven years in China, England, and now in Munich, Germany.

By day, Vanessa is a travel tech professional. But by morning, night, weekends, let's say her life's work is all about helping women and expats get their money right at home and abroad. She's a finance coach and a travel hacker who personally has 10 income streams and is set to retire by the age of 40.  

Find Vanessa

On WanderOnwards.co
On TikTok
On Instagram
On YouTube
On Twitter
On Facebook

About Adventure Calls

Adventure calls is produced, edited and written by me, Jessica Drucker. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, then head over to iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts and rate and review the show. Every single reading helps so much for me to reach and inspire more people. If you're feeling really inspired and want to start thinking about how you can actually make your move abroad, pick up a copy of my book on Amazon, how to move abroad and why it's the best thing you'll do is essentially a masterclass in book form. Taking my 15 years experience living abroad and distilling that into 300 pages, you'll get step by step tips on how to move abroad in 90 days, how to get your paperwork together, how to get a visa advice on how to blend in like a spy, how to learn any language in the world and more, head to amazon.com and pick up your copy of how to move abroad and why it's the best thing you'll do today.

Music scoring primarily through YouTube Audio Library:
Credit req’d: Marty Gots a Plan - Kevin MacLeod
Sonatina No 2 in F Major Allegro - Joel Cummins
Alpine Bierhalle - Aaron Kenny
Classic ClarinetsThe Two Seasons - Dan Bodan
Brahms Lullaby - Ron Meixsell
Relaxing_Campfire - Delicate Steve
Cash Machine - Anno Domini Beats

Image credits from Unsplash:
Alexander Dummer
Daniel Schludi
Dominik Martin
Kinson Leung
Kwan Fung
Lost Design
Luis Fernando Felipe Alves
Matthias Schroder
Nicolas Hans
Norbert Staudt
Sven Mieke  

Full episode transcript

Jessica Drucker 

Vanessa, you are an expat. Where do you currently live? Where have you lived? And where are you originally from?

Vanessa MW

Okay, that is a loaded question. I currently live in Munich, Germany, but that's probably going to change. We're going to move somewhere else in Germany in the near future. I am originally from Los Angeles, California. I'm a proud Chicana which means Mexican American. And in the past, I've lived in Los Angeles, Boston, Beijing, London, Turkey, India. And Morocco for like, a couple of weeks. And yeah, I think those are all the places Oh, the Philippines for two months.

Jessica Drucker  

Okay, I did not know all of those places. So Wow. Where have you lived the longest? And then another loaded question, what places had the most impact on you?

Vanessa MW

So I lived the longest in London. I was there for almost six years. I just left February of this year. But the place that had the most impact on me was China. I was there for two years and that, like, built the woman that you see today. I almost was deported. I got salmonella. I've never worked harder for $1 in my life. But all of these things made me into like this really resilient, open minded person. So if you're questioning what to do with your life, as a young person, you have no responsibilities or children. Stop your life. Start again. Do it in China.

Jessica Drucker  

When you were in China, what work were you doing that was so hard that you were you were working so hard for every dollar

Vanessa MW

So I initially went over to teach ESL which is English as a second language and then I discovered I hate children. So five months into my contract, I quit. Yeah, I took out every dime I had for my savings account, which was $3,000. I paid a university to accept me for a Chinese program I applied and got in, in cash, I just carried $3,000 worth of renminbi in stacks in my backpack, because you can only pay in cash. And then I had to support myself while I studied Chinese. So I did Chinese 8am to 12pm. And then I worked 1pm until like eight 910 o'clock at night doing a tutoring English doing marketing doing like digital nomad thing, that I actually got paid $1,000 to dress up as a slutty Santa Claus helper in July to pass out pizza at a like corporate office for like some pizza promotion.

Jessica Drucker  

Like I said, you were a model. Yeah, you don't have to say you were a slutty Santa, you were a model in China, look at you,

Vanessa MW

Whatever you gotta say to justify it to yourself. I the value of $1. 

Jessica Drucker  

Wow, that is such a story. And that's, that's really interesting. And, you know, we're gonna probably bounce all around. But like, visas are really tough when you're dependent on a visa. And you got to really figure out how to make it work. And I know what that's like. And this is actually my first time in my whole life. Well, I've been home now for like, five or six years now. But I don't need a visa. And it's crazy to me to just like, do whatever I want. So I really understand where you're just like, oh, shit, I have to stay here. I want to be here to have to figure out how to make this all work. And so you did modeling? That's fine. Okay, so one of the most important things to me is to you know, all this stuff that comes after the leap sounds to someone who's never made the leap, glamorous or unachievable, unattainable for someone else, even though they're dreaming about it inside. And you and I both know what that's like. Because we talk to people who want maybe to move abroad and don't what in the world gave you the idea that you could move abroad? Where'd you get the gumption? Like, why? Why did you think you could actually do it? And then how did you commit to actually doing it?

Vanessa MW

So I was never really a cool kid in America. I didn't have a lot of friends. I was not popular in high school. And then I thought, okay, I'll move 3000 miles away to go to college. And when I got there, I was still not cool. So like building a foundation in America to keep me there was just not happening for me. One of my older cousins, Imani, bless her heart. She was having the same experience. But she was six years older than me. So she actually took off to play professional soccer in Europe. And during that time, I went to go visit her. She learned four languages. She had several lovers and different ones. And I was like, if I don't fit in, in America, what is stopping me from trying to find my place in the world abroad? So I started doing trips by myself. I started trying to find any reason to leave the country. I fundraised, I went I was part of this church group, even though I don't believe in God, and I just knew that they were going to be able to get me to Morocco. 

And then it was September 2012, where I sat down to take the LSAT, I had a complete anxiety attack, I didn't realize the gravity of going to law school immediately after school. Like that's real debt. That's a real pause on your life. It's a real commitment. So I decided, let's demolish everything in my life. Let's quit my future. Let's quit law school. Let's break up with my boyfriend. And let's move to China. And so I bought a plane ticket and did just that. And I made it. I created a space for myself where I couldn't back out. So I told everyone on social media, I told all of my friends. And that really gave me the push I needed to follow through.

Jessica Drucker  

And did you go to China already with a job?

Vanessa MW

Yes. So I found a ESL job and interviewed for it while I was still in the United States. And they helped me organize all the logistics for my first move over.

Jessica Drucker  

Interesting and how did you know that it was a reputable company? Because I think it's there is there are no cultural or contextual clues for you when you're like very far away from your home culture. So how did you know that it was legit.

Vanessa MW

It was kind of a leap of faith. I did do some research on LinkedIn. I asked them for testimonies and people for me to talk to. So I did direct message these people to be like how was your experience? blahdy blahdy blah Also they had a foreigner as like the marketing face of that money. So that really helped with, like, connecting with someone who understood me where I was from and what sort of anxieties I was going through.

Jessica Drucker  

Got it. So you basically, you're able to vet them fully, you know, and it is a lot less, it's a lot less scary. Now. I mean, you know, I've given you shit before, but you call me an old g on your podcast, because I'm older than you. And like, a long time ago, you know, pre internet or pre like real internet internet like we have now, that would have been much scarier because you can't, you can't like, even if you were to ask someone for their reference, when you dm them nowadays, you can see that they're like a real person there, you know, they do real things that you're actually talking to someone. So that does take away some of the anxiety around the fact that you're moving to China, you know, which feels really foreign, but at least there's some frame of reference for you there where you can actually vet people. So that's cool.

Vanessa MW

Yeah, I and there is some levels of like mystery and surprise that comes with it. Because when I moved to London, I didn't know anyone, I just knew that they spoke English there. When I moved to Germany, I really didn't have a support network here. When I spent two months in the Philippines, I literally took a plane to a bus, to a taxi to a boat to a tricycle to get to a random island to do my patio certification and just live in a hostel for two months. So it becomes easier as soon as you realize the world is not that scary. People are not out there to like murder you.

Jessica Drucker  

I have never been less safe than I am in America where I was held up at gunpoint, I was robbed multiple times. I've never had these experiences abroad. It is true people are generally good people want to help you. And the other thing, and you know we can get into this a little bit later is like people actually will go out of their way to help you as a foreigner, which we won't do here because we don't trust anyone in the US. And so you wouldn't just like bring a stranger home with you because you're going to end up on Dateline. So you just don't do that kind of stuff here. Right. But like people you will find in your life abroad that people should do that. So hold on. I have so many questions for you. But let's let's tell everyone first like so. You live in Germany. Now. You lived in London for a long time, which is something we share. I lived in the UK for four years. What did what do you do? And if you moved in February, did you did you go with your job? Like do you have the same job that you had? So what what is keeping you in Europe right now? What's your What's your job?

Vanessa MW

So I currently work for a massive travel tech company called Expedia group, we're much more popular in America and English markets. And for them, I am a API, technical consultant. So we have a technology that other companies build into. And then our technology allows them to tap into supply into fancy things that we do in the back end into our data. So there's a real value that we provide, because a lot of your favorite travel booking websites, they don't actually have hotel supply. They're a marketing company. And so that's how we bring those two things together.

Jessica Drucker  

And how did you get that job in Europe? So like, how do you get to stay?

Vanessa MW

So I got this job in the United Kingdom. Initially, I did my master's degree in, in London. And so that's how I got the foundation in the European Union. I think we always forget that there are universities outside of America that are very good, very reputable, and give you the foundation that you need to establish a network wherever it is that you are, so you can stay easier. I ended up getting married to my German husband in 2017. And then that gave me the IE a citizen rights, so same as any German national to remain in the United Kingdom as long as I wanted. And then I got the settled status, which means I can stay there permanently. In February, I got an internal transfer from Expedia to go work in our German office. So they put me on a German contract, which basically means they can never fire me. And now I'm living my best life here. When it comes to figuring out what visa is right for you. There are pros and cons to each one. People think that the marriage visa is easy. No, it is actually one of the harder visas to secure because there are income thresholds. There are language thresholds, there is a long line of other people trying to get their loved ones into the country. Whereas a work visa Yes, getting the work. Visa sponsorship is hard. You have to get a company to agree to pay the money in the time. But once you have that you have expensive lawyers that do all the paperwork for you. So that personal stress is not in front of you and constantly on your mind. Interesting.

Jessica Drucker  

So like in Germany right now that you're required to take German classes in order to stay?

Yep. So I had the past the ions I see studied for two weeks and passed it. Um, I think my brain after studying Chinese just kind of knows how to skate by on languages, I'm by no means at jesses level, but I'm working through it. And I might, I'm puntos by. So we're slowly moving up.

Jessica Drucker  

I always say this, but anyone can learn any language, it's really part of it, most of it is really reducing the fear and being willing to make mistakes. But the other thing is, you are a perfect example of this, you're willing to burn down whatever house it takes to get what you want. And so language is just like another one of those things where so you make a bunch of mistakes. So what you know, you'll you'll get through it, and you'll learn the language at the end, which you will I'm sure you'll be very fluent one day, but you work in Germany, and you were able to find a job regardless of what type of visa you live in work not speaking German. Is there just like a couple of things that you can say about about that, and what that's like for you?

Vanessa MW

Yeah, so it is a little bit difficult to do the day to day stuff in Germany, like I live outside of Munich. So when I need to go grocery shopping, there can be some, like Miss translations on my part when I'm trying to order cumin bread. But when it comes to work, Europe has so many languages, it's so International. Now anyone with like a bachelor's degree speaks English and has to because the common language in Europe is English, which is like surprising to most people. So every day I speak English at work, I speak Spanish at work, I'm starting to do German more and more. But Germans are very willing to speak English with you, because they also want to practice this is their way of using their skillset. So if you're looking for jobs abroad in a country that you don't have any experience in or don't speak the language of look for job adverts advertisements that are in English, because that's kind of the signal that they're open to other speaking other types of speaking and languages. Look for international teams. That's the key word there. Because if you have Serbian developers, but you have French project managers, then you were all going to speak English together.

Jessica Drucker  

Right? Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the fact that you give all this advice. Obviously, you spend more time thinking about this than the average expat. So let's talk about your your like real business, your passion, and the work that you do that that's where we sort of share a lot in common, I think, but what do you what is that work that you do? And also why why why have you decided to go into this field.

Vanessa MW

So I own a business called wander onwards, and on it, it is a wealth and wanderlust platform, which means I help people make money and moves abroad. I teach people how to move abroad, mostly Americans right now because our situation is so unique with our anxieties, our tax situation, etc. I help them relocate all around the world with my move abroad masterclass, which is a six week experience, where you graduate with an end to end plan of where you're going to work, how you're going to feed yourself, where you're going to live, etc. Then I also have my financial tools and workshops, where I teach mostly women how to invest, how to build budgets, how to create financial freedom for themselves. And because I've been so active in this space for the last three years, I'm actually on track to retire at 48. And I'll have over a million dollars in my investment account. I'll have a few houses, I have two businesses. So your girls just gonna chill.

Jessica Drucker  

So can you talk about like expat finances what some of the challenges are for people who want to move abroad? And like? Yeah, I mean, how do we find success? How are you going to have a million dollars in so few years, etc?

Vanessa MW

Yeah, so the tax bit, I've become the self-appointed like Expat Tax expert, I got into a whole bunch of trouble last year, because I wasn't reporting that my taxes correctly, and I spent $1,000 to get all the accountants involved and and to make sure it was really organized properly. Do not open a business overseas, open it in America and take it with you. Are you ready? Yep. Understand the foreign tax credit system, how you can apply it, and then really understand that if you are earning money in America, in your home, in your home country with a business that you own, there are still tax implications for you as someone abroad because that's foreign income to your home country. So I have three accountants for all three countries that I have assets in, and I think they're worth every penny.

Jessica Drucker  

Yeah, yeah. So you say you have investments in three, three countries, right. So I would assume having lived the bulk of your financially smart years in the UK, some of those are in the UK, so you've invested abroad. So first Can we do that? Second of all, is the only way to do it smartly by by hiring advisors and paying people to help you and how do you know who to work with.

Vanessa MW

So I was advised by a wealth manager to move all of my financial market tools home. So if you're going to be investing in index funds, stocks, stuff like that, move that home to America in a taxable brokerage. For European countries, we have pensions that we don't have any like, say and whether or not they're going to invest for us. So especially in Germany, where we have the point system, there's not a monetary number to that you just keep contributing to the point system until you retire. And then that's your income. So you can apply for in credits against that. In the UK, I have a similar like us type of brokerage that I had no choice but to invest in, and that is treated like a normal bank account by the US government based off of how I file my taxes. So I just have to keep telling them that it's there. And it should be okay. According to my accountant.

Jessica Drucker  

What if you're not as financially literate? As you are, for example, me, I blacked out again, when you talked about all of that? Um, no, it was something where I was researching for my book as well. You know, it is really complicated. What if you're just like, not that kind of person? What do you do? Because it's not it is it is so disappointing to think that expats can't do well in life, because they don't understand all of this stuff that you're talking about, what do we do? Who do we talk to? How

Vanessa MW

do we how do we make these moves and still earn, if you just Google expat taxes, you're gonna get a lot of services online that can talk you through exactly what I'm speaking about, that is country specific for you, the meetings cost anywhere from like 100 to $300 an hour. But that amount of money will set you up for years to come. So please do invest in yourself. The easiest thing to do though, is before you leave open a brokerage. So that is a investment account, you could do it with fidelity, with Vanguard with Charles Schwab, it doesn't matter. And then take a little bit of your paycheck, move it over to that brokerage every single year. And you can do like an automatic sort of Robo investor and I call this lazy girl investing, you pick a fund, the fund says we will have your money ready for you when you're 65, or retirement age, whatever year you want it to be. And just let us do the thing for you. So I always recommend target date funds for girls or men who just want to be doing something productive with their money, but don't want to have such an active participation in it. And is this something I'm doing? So I live in Germany, which is, which I don't know. But I know from experience, it's a highly taxed place, right? So

Jessica Drucker  

if you're earning income in Germany, you pay quite a lot of taxes, of course, you get everything out of it that you put into it. But that's another discussion. Now, am I taking my my post tax income, my net income and investing, I'm sending that and wiring that over to a US account, I think that's what gets a little confusing when you're an expert, am I paying for like an international wire transfer to my us account and then investing it...

Vanessa MW

That's exactly what you're doing. So this is after tax money that you have the right to move around the world. And then it does get a little tricky when it comes to dividends. So when you pay for a stock or a fund, they'll send you money back. But there are different ways to apply your credits that we just mentioned. And also there are some there's some leeway based off of where you are about realized income. Because the dividends can just be put right back into the portfolio you don't ever have to realize is there.

Jessica Drucker  

And you know what, and that's why, you know, I think everybody should learn everybody who wants to be an expat now should learn from you because it is really confusing. And everybody's money situation is different, but it is totally possible. The thing that's very frustrating is that Americans have to deal with this in a way that no one else does.

Vanessa MW

I think any expat, if you make it abroad, you have to be smart as a whip. And so just learning how to apply that same sort of creativity to finance and businesses will really take your life to the next level.

Jessica Drucker  

Yeah. And that's important, because for me, I initially you know, in the first sort of phase of my life, I decided to not do that because I blacked out And I stayed small instead. It doesn't mean I didn't have a big life. And no matter what, when I look back, I mean, I did all kinds of things, you know, I could rattle off my list of amazing things and weird injuries and all kinds of stuff. But I stayed small, I earned low. I was intimidated by the finance system, and the IRS. And so you what, what interests me now is I want to show people that not only can you live abroad and live a big life in the way that I did, but you can also live big, you just have to find out, figure out the rules, figure out the game and find out how and that's why, you know, someone like you is just so so important to help people. So, you know, I'll include, like your links to everything in the show notes. And, you know, obviously help people find you whenever I can with regard to that stuff. But I want to ask you, I'm going to switch gears a little bit because I discovered something about you and my research, and this is a total gear switch. But so your mom is a badass mofo. Yeah, she is. She's the vice mayor of a town in California.

Vanessa MW

No, wait that needs to be updated, she is the mayor! 

Jessica Drucker  

I did not know. Yes, you need to update everywhere. I did not find that. Even I went to her LinkedIn, everything. But um, so she's amazing. And you say that she's one of your mentors, obviously in life. Um, so a couple of things I found so interesting about that one, I think you clearly had some determination. She's also worked at Big Four, a big four firm and stuff like that she was very successful before. So part of your determination, your financial literacy, your I can burn down the house and build myself back up no matter what I think obviously comes from your mom, you had a great role model. But she's also the opposite of you. She is the mayor of a town in one place on one patch of land. Very stuck and stable there. You on the other hand are ruthless. And you go wherever you want. Um, how did she feel about you going abroad? What were her concerns for you? Yeah, and how did how did she see this life that you live now she was she supportive of it. 

Vanessa MW

So my mom is on paper, the opposite of me because she was actually born in Alhambra, which is a city that is less than a mile away from where she currently lives. So all my mom's life, she's grown up in like 10 square miles of Los Angeles, she went to university in Los Angeles, we currently still live in Los Angeles. So when she had me, she really wanted a different story for me as her child. And so she actually refused to allow us to apply to in state schools, she sent all of her children outside of the state for for university, she wanted us to be independent. She wanted us to learn how to take care of ourselves. And so I just kept going. The joke is I only move 3000 miles at a time or not at all. So from from that, she has always been like my number one fan, my number one PR agent. Sometimes she'll actually go to schools to speak and she'll say, you'll have to follow my daughter Vanessa, she lives in money, blah, blah. And some kids are already following me. Like That was crazy to me that that that crossover was there. And so she loves to brag about my my life. I think she's just so proud. And so that makes me blush a little bit. She'll introduce me as Vanessa, her daughter that lives in Germany that's fluent in Chinese. I'm like, No, no, no, no, no. But I know that she's always my biggest fan, even if I'm not always correct in my assertions, or sometimes I don't, I don't have any business speaking on the things that I do. She just knows that I can do it, if I want to do it. And that's kind of the attitude I've carried around the world with me. If I want to do it, I can do it. I just need to sit down and figure out how

Jessica Drucker  

So and I think that's so you know, it's so interesting to me, and really important to me, because you know, not everyone has that kind of a role model growing up. I mean, you had a blueprint for success, generally. I mean, no one's perfect. You know, obviously, all kinds of things are complicated and family life. But, you know, you have this blueprint, and it gave you the confidence. And also I was thinking the same with your cousin who who went to go play professional soccer abroad, too. It's like, you can't be what you can't see. But you and your family you saw not only just like how to be successful from your mom and also the encouragement to go explore. But then you know, your cousin was just like, I live in Europe now and you're like, I can do that. And then you did. That so are you you went abroad. So I just think it's so important. And that's why with these interviews that I do too, for, especially for people who don't have those people in their lives you serve is such a wonderful example where it's just like, well, Vanessa did it. You know, and I know that I can do it too. Exactly.

Vanessa MW

I am not that special. I graduated with like a B minus from university. Like, I'm not very good at math. I have nothing exceptional about me other than I believe I can do whatever it is that I want. So take that with you and in your journey listeners, because it really doesn't matter where you started at. You can get there with enough like, gumption and belief in yourself gumption

Jessica Drucker  

all these words are so silly, but like gumption, chutzpah, whatever it is, it's like you do need Moxie, I hate that word, too. But like, you need to have that thing. That's the thing is that you need to have that and I and I've been trying to get to the root of what that is. But I actually just think it's like, commitment, just like, willingness to do this thing that you dream about doing and think about doing and just just making the commitment and doing it. But I think it's also important to note like, I am certainly not special either. And I didn't realize until I came home, and I would meet people, especially who'd be like, Oh my God, you're so lucky. And I'd be like, I didn't feel lucky when I was, you know, walking to a 7am English teaching class in the freezing cold winter in Germany, you know, because I didn't have a car, whatever, like I didn't feel special, but you become exceptional when you become the exception. So when you stop, like, when you stop following all the rules that you were given by somebody else, and you say, Well, yeah, but I'm going to do it this way. Now you are by definition, exceptional. And like, isn't that the kind of life we all sort of dream about?

Vanessa MW  

Oh, for sure. And I will say anything that I've ever tried to plan long term has always blown up on my face. So I moved to China on a whim, I moved to London for my now husband after only knowing him for three months, like just knowing him not even dating him. Nice. Yeah, now we're married with like a beautiful cat and home in Germany. I have consistently done what my heart and my gut tells me to do versus the 10 year plan. I was given in the United States, by my peers, by my teachers by society.

Jessica Drucker  

What do you advice for people who feel like Oh, shit, it's too late. Maybe I can't go abroad.

Vanessa MW  

So you this might surprise you. But my oldest had to move abroad masterclass. attendee, it was 40 something. I have another woman who's actually 60 and retired that is doing it this March, if you are planning to retire abroad, I think that is the smartest thing anyone can do. The cost of living outside of the United States is drastically different. And we have socialized health care out here. So I project that I'll need $30,000 a year to comfortably retire in Germany. Were in the United States. Can you do that? Nowhere? No. If you have a pension and you're planning to retire, you need to figure out how much you're going to withdraw from that pension every single year, my recommendation is 4%. Because that still allows your money to continue to grow, even though you start to age or you you do something else with your time, then you're going to want to pick a tier two city or a tier three cities, the rents will be anywhere from 700 to 300 euros or even less if you go to Asia. And then you just got to set yourself up with the local healthcare system. So in Portugal, on the L seven visa, you get access to their health care, you only have to prove that you have $10,000 in the bank. And you get to live in Portugal as if you're a local until your final day if you really want to. So if you have a dream, it is not too late to go pursue that abroad.

Jessica Drucker  

And you know, just to end on that note, that's exactly right. It is not too late. It is not too early. It is not too too much of anything. anyone at any age can go no matter what no matter what place you are, no matter your education level no matter what. So where can people find you online? And what do you have coming up?

Vanessa MW

Sure. So you can find me at wanderonwards.co, that's my website. I'm really into Instagram, I post free daily content there. I host lots of IG lives. That's the best place to reach me. I also have lots of free move abroad and finance tutorials on YouTube under the same name @wanderonwards. Moving forward, I have the next round of my move abroad masterclass happening in March where you actually get live time with me in a group setting so you get to ask me all the hard questions. And then this December I'm dropping my financial fluency course. It is a six week all inclusive learning experience where you're taught everything from how to make a budget, how to fix your credit, how to invest, and it's essentially everything that we should have learned in school. So it's it's been two years in the making for me and I am so excited that it's almost done mostly so I can sleep again. But I love speaking to people on the internet, please DM me, please come say hi, tell me about your gossip and your love life.

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