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The post-pandemic future of black travel with Martinique Lewis of the Black Travel Alliance

About Marty Lewis

Martinique Lewis is a Diversity in Travel Consultant who works tirelessly to ensure that diversity is not just a buzzword in the travel industry. She blogs at MartySanDiego.com, where she is the creator of the Diversity in Travel Report Card holding the industry to a higher and more transparent standard. Marty has been working with tourist boards and travel brands for years, first for free and today as one of the co-founders of the recently-formed Black Travel Alliance. The mission of the Black Travel Alliance is to support Black content creators around the world and increase their representation in the travel industry, including but not limited to employment, conferences, and media.

In this interview, Marty discusses her own path in the travel industry, who in the industry currently scores highly on her diversity in travel report cards, and the future of black travel post-pandemic and hopefully post-paradigm shift as a result of the Black Lives Matter movement. She also gives us a list of over 20 Black content creators to follow off the top of her head - she is an amazing resource and connector. We also discuss Black-led tours available around the world, and Marty encourages listeners, when you next take a trip to a new city or a new country, to consider making at least one of the tours you book one that looks at the history or heritage of that place through the lens of the Black community, or African Diaspora, of that spot. 

There has never been more energy piping through this podcast, so sit back, strap in and prepare to be mesmerized by the inspiring and driven Marty Lewis.

episode highlights 

5:35 How Martinique got started in the travel industry, by finding communities like: 

9:40 The history and mission of Marty’s Diversity in Travel Report Card.

13:15 Marty discusses what brands include diversity throughout their marketing, branding and hiring policies:

19:45 As an example, Marty cites how VisitEngland and Bristol Tourism can and should do better thinking through their representation of diverse audiences. 

24:00 We discuss the foundation of the Black Travel Alliance.

35:00 When I ask for a list of Black travel content creators, Marty almost can’t stop listing them off the top of her head, including, but not limited to: 

39:20 We discuss taking tours from the lens of the African diaspora, including:

40:20 We discuss the future of black travel post-Black Lives Matter paradigm shift, and the publication of Marty’s new book:

45:00 Marty discusses the future of Black Travel. 

Links mentioned in this episodE

Marty Lewis can be found around the web at her website and Instagram.

Also in Black Travel Alliance website.

About Adventure Calls 

From her quarantine to theirs, world-traveler and author of How To Move Abroad And Why It’s The Best Thing You’ll Do, Jessica Drucker, calls up travel experts to find out what they envision for the future of travel in a post-pandemic world.

Full episode transcript

Jessica Drucker: Hey guys, it's Jess from the adventure cast podcast. What if there was someone who were holding the travel industry accountable for the representation of black and brown people in travel marketing, media and even on their staff? What if someone was so passionate about this, that she first did all the work for free, creating a diversity and travel report card. And then after she got enough attention, and started really making waves in the space, also became the co founder of the black travel Alliance, where all of these black travel content creators could be found all in one place and represented. That person, she's on the show today. Her name is Marty Lewis, and I couldn't be more excited to have her on. Let me tell you a little bit about Marty before we get started, and then we'll kick off episode nine of the adventure calls podcast.

Marty Lewis, her full name Martinique Lewis, is a diversity and travel consultant who works tirelessly to ensure the diversity is not just a buzzword in the travel industry. She blogs over at MartySanDiego.com where she's the creator of the diversity in travel report card holding the industry to a higher and more transparent standard. Marty has been working with tourist boards and travel brands for years first for free, and today is one of the co founders of the black travel Alliance. The mission of the black travel Alliance is to support black content creators around the world and increase their representation in the travel industry, including, but not limited to, employment conferences and media. In this interview, Marty discusses her own path in the travel industry, who in the travel industry currently scores highly on her diversity in travel report cards and the future of black travel in a post pandemic and hopefully post paradigm shift world as a result of the Black Lives Matter movement. She also gives us a list of over 20 black content creators to follow off the top of her head. She's an amazing resource and connector. We also discuss black tours available around the world and Marty encourages listeners when you take the next trip to a new city or a new country, consider making at least one of those tours you book, one that looks at the history or heritage of that place through the lens of the black community or African Diaspora of that spot. There's never been more energy piping through this podcast. So sit back strap in, and prepare to be mesmerized by the inspiring and driven Marty Lewis.

Hi, Marty, thank you so much for taking my call. Thank you for having me. I am very excited to have you on today. And I know we were just saying this but you must be so, so busy right now. So first of all, most important questions. How are you feeling? how healthy are you? are your family healthy?

Marty Lewis: Thank God my family is healthy and I think we've we've all been quarantining together. So if one person Go down, we're all gonna go down. But we are grateful to have this time with each other, you know, just mentally, emotionally, physically. Everything that's going on in the world right now is of course taking its toll. So trying to figure out the best balance to stay healthy and to be mentally strong in the midst of all of this just when sometimes you do want to cry, sometimes you are angry, there are multiple things that are triggering for you. Because sometimes you feel like people just don't understand or anytime that there's some type of equality issues. There's always people who try to devalue what you feel, and I think that's the thing that I hate the most. But luckily, it's nobody I know. You know, luckily, it's trolls on social media and people just being negative, but it has been an interesting quarantine having to be quarantine and going through a quality struggle, and just figuring out how to maintain the fact that you're always within your house and you can't go anywhere. I am on top of being angry. with what's going on, so yeah, finding your balance has been the biggest thing for me right now.

Jessica Drucker: Yeah, definitely. And where are you quarantining?

Marty Lewis: Well, I'm in California, so it's interesting. Um, this is the longest I've ever been in my house.

Jessica Drucker: I was gonna ask, I was gonna ask.

Marty Lewis: Yeah, you know, my sister makes fun of me cuz she's like, are you gonna keep buying stuff at your house? And I'm like, Well, now that I'm here, yeah. Because, you know, I never wanted to invest in something like I am never home. I was probably out of 365 days of the year. I'm traveling 275 so for me to be here, you know, it's Oh, finally getting comfortable in my space cooking in my kitchen, getting used to my bed, you know, and it's definitely different.

Jessica Drucker: So okay, so let's get into why you're so amazing and why I really wanted to talk to you most specifically because you are just like you just said you travel 275 days a year. You're a super traveler, you I want to explore your sort of evolution in the travel industry. So you did you start as a A travel blogger is that where you would put yourself and then how did you sort of get into these like really big organizations that you work with? Now let's start with like how you got started in the industry?

Marty Lewis: Yeah, I've always been a traveler and I literally one day was like, why don't I see myself reflected and I was like, I need to do something I need to do something about and at the time, the black travel movement was growing a lot on social media and so we started to find all of these different you know, communities like nomadic tribe who I work for now like black travel gram or traveling war, and there was a post I was put up by black travel journey, saying they were looking for people to work with them. So I time everybody had already like identified me as like the travels and I just like hit up on my friends like tagged me in this post. So I ended up working with black travel journey for my first year in this and I came on as director of strategic partnerships and collaborations. And so from that moment, it was really when I basically applied the pressure To make sure that brands were working with people of color and so then I stopped looking for black travel journey and I started working for no madness tribe. And when I came across a visa who was already so prominent in the industry, I brought my contacts from black travel journey, but now I have my expertise from Avita and her circle of networks and because my managed tribe was already so known in the industry, because it was the first black travel movement which started in 2011 I could I could then do all the type of content I want it because I was there to run social media. So everything that I had learned from black travel journey or learned on my own, I was implemented to no madness. So we started to separate ourselves from just being like a repost account to being like actual travel education and how do I identify with other people of diet of the Diaspora when you travel, and it just started to grow from there as well. But um, that prompts you about travel journey. wasn't paid, it was me and the founder. And I decided that I was going to go out and speak on behalf of black travel journey, because I wasn't director of strategic partnership. So I set out, I spent all my money on going to travel conferences, and I was always there. And I understood that they weren't going to know who I was. I'm just random black girl who always sits in the front row, and make sure I raise my hand and ask a question that's going to make you uncomfortable, but you're going to know who I am, before I leave. I went broke doing it, but I was like, You know what, I'm serious about this mission. I see how many people feel neglected and not just black travelers, but overall, how many people call neglect and I was like, I need to keep doing this and I was like, one day it's going to pay off like your voice will be heard. Right? So that's just kind of how it grew. And because of black travel journey, people started asking us like, Okay, well, how can we connect with the black consumer and then I visited with I went to with the women in travel summit, I did 2018 with and of course you know, Beth, and I He was in Quebec. And that's when I realized that it wasn't just a black travel thing, because there was Muslim travelers there who felt neglected, there was plus sized travelers who come in like that. There was sick travelers who felt neglected. And I'm thinking, whoa, like, there's such an opportunity here that's being missed. So that's when I really started advocating for diversity and traveling as a whole.

Jessica Drucker: As a whole. Okay, so you, you really do pay attention to the whole spectrum of diversity in travel, because I have to say that a couple of things there so working within the travel industry, I go to all these shows as well. And that are there are two ways the international shows are oddly like, so if there's someone from Saudi Arabia, they're wearing their very typical garb that they wear, if there's someone from Guatemala, they're wearing their, you know, third hand Deacon if there's someone you know, so they're everybody's sort of like, dressed up as what they are. But when you are in the US, or the European sections of these really large conferences, it's it's all white people. I mean, you really you really see it, so there's the people who are from other countries dress by Almost like a costume the whole time, and then you just see, I mean, you know, there are occasionally black people there, but it is such a white environment. So, then, um, you know, I have to say that I'm also like as a gay traveler and not as a white male gay traveler. I also feel that way. So that's why your diversity and travel report card is so interesting to me. Because even in in my niche or my space of LGBT travel, I feel completely unseen. Because I don't have a six pack. I'll admit it. And I'm not a white man. So they're not really you know, talking to me either. So, absolutely. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about the diversity in travel report card? And from what I understand, you generally give the travel industry an F?

Marty Lewis: Yes. before it went up a little bit, but you know, I started it and it's so funny when I tell people, the big difference you see between 2018 and 2019 to 2018. I was just upset because nobody was really willing to listen and it was like I was calling people. I was emailing People I could see you read my emails because I have the tracker on. So I know you opened them or I could see you were looking at my LinkedIn profile to see like my validity and sending you these things. But I was so angry. So I just was calling people out like, you're not doing this, you're not doing this, you're not doing this. And then I had to realize, like when I'm doing that, that doesn't help, right? I'm just pointing the finger. Even though people agreed with me, that's not the way you go about creating change. I'm like, now you need to actually analyze the companies that are doing a good job. So then you can use them as examples. So they can no longer say, well, we don't know how to start because I just gave you an example as to what a brand is doing to make sure that they that they are showing inclusivity. So the first year it was very harsh, I will say that. But it was still effective. You know, it helps me start working with Norwegian airlines. It's helped me to start working with certain tourism boards. It helped me to start work working with Hilton, because they got wind of it and then this year, it has gone now completely more viral and even within the last month. The amount of traffic to my website looking at it, versus what it was in March, when I first or at the end of February when I initially release it is so much more greater. So I know that people's eyes are on and I know that it's making a difference. But like I said, this year, I teamed up with one of the major global brands to help me with the actual analytics and KPIs because now people are gonna be like, well, how are you measuring? this have anything they'd be like? Well, it's just your opinion. I'm like, No, this is actually based off of the backend information I got from this company who was also going to assist me on next year, and it's going to help me get actual diversity and inclusion awards moving forward. So I can't announce who they are yet. But eventually I'll be able to tell you why but it is a global brand. And I think it speaks a lot to just the industry.

Jessica Drucker: But that's the thing. Like when you're a thought leader, you you basically you're saying Okay, I'm going to take charge here and feed the thought leader in this space in the first year. You let it by, you know, passion and you let it by how you felt you were picked Like you just let go. But yeah, but you know, I was gonna ask you so are you sort of auditing the front end marketing of different travel companies and looking at them and and signing up for their email and looking at their social ads? You're doing like a whole marketing audit?

Marty Lewis: Absolutely. So based off of the the top 55 travel brands, I have all of their back and information through this company that I work with, but really, I just, I noticed everything I follow the certain hashtags, you know, I'm so engulfed in this space now that when anybody else sees something that means sent to me and say, Oh, my gosh, how great this campaign was like, so I'm able to save things out. But yeah, my eyes are always open for that type of stuff. And even you know, when you go to a Wcm, and you're walking around and you see all the different booths, and you notice no diversity, you can just, that's a moment for you to go and attack it at the moment and then seeing the difference from 2018 to 2019. I'm like, okay, so people are actually listening.

Jessica Drucker: And I don't want to call out any of the bad companies right now. But what brands are doing it right? And what does that look like? So like, what does a brand who's doing it right? Whatever that even means, what are they doing?

Marty Lewis: Right? So I always love to, of course point out with when it comes to on the conference level. And it's because I've never had to have this conversation with they already knew about they already always had diversity and inclusion at the top of mine. So I've never had to wonder about not seeing people like me who are speaking on the roster. I never have to wonder about sessions not reflecting the things that I'm going through as a traveler, I've never had to wonder about their internal team not looking diverse because it is diverse, you know, topped out. Absolutely. And so you know, which is a perfect example of how to run a conference and how to make sure that diversity and inclusion is celebrated internally because it is reflected externally. So I saw people make sure you look at what's best and and Marissa and Arielle like the whole team AlphaGo everybody, there's just so much there and it represents so many different niches And that's why they're able to get it right because they can advocate for who they identify with when it comes to you know a point to to getting speakers in terms of airlines I always say Norwegian Air their North America team has literally said like, we want the African American community and they have done everything it takes to make sure they get the African American community before they had unfortunately furloughs and layoffs. They're also doing like an all Asian American pressure which we've never seen before so the fact that they read the thinking about it was phenomenal. They sent they sent five they sent five of us to to Sweden last I don't know may and that was one of the only all black press trips that they've ever had you know that any any airline has ever had.

Jessica Drucker: I was gonna ask Can I just ask you right there because our our brands doing like all black press trips, for example. Is that is that actually happening yet?

Marty Lewis: It's far and in between. So I'm Tim pay, they were getting ready to do on with me and my friend But COVID happened to Arizona November and now it's probably pushed to 2021 Norwegian has done them before Grenada has done one before Barbados did one a year ago.

Jessica Drucker: And Ghana did something really big a couple years ago.

Marty Lewis: I'm Ghana does the year return. And so yes, they they did want also but it's few and in between when you'll see them so when you do see them, they're celebrating because it's like, oh my gosh, nothing but black black people on one press because normally there's either no black people or just one you know, so to see a one it really speaks to. It really speaks to brands who care like you can tell they care because of that. So yeah, Norwegian is a good example, Tempe tourism, Maine's mid coast, Jenna Howard, I'll never forget and it wasn't all black, but it was diverse. It was after width. And we all went on a on a press trip throughout Maine's mid coast and there was me a Jewish, Ecuador. And a Taiwanese and a Chinese, and they were both Canadians, the girls from Canada of Taiwanese and Chinese, but the fact that all of us was traveling throughout Maine where you don't think there's any people of color, you know, and I was so nervous about it, because I was like, are they going to ask to touch my hair? Are they going to only stare at me? Are they going to want to? Are they going to treat me differently the way that they treated other people? And not one time? Did anybody ask us what we were doing there? Why we were all together. And she was like, regular people. And to me, that was phenomenal. But when we asked, you know why she tells us, she said, because I understand that diversity and inclusion is important, and that we missed the mark previously, but we're trying to do better now. And this is a way for us to do better. And it wasn't just like, oh, let me check off boxes. It was truly genuine, because our pictures also now are all over their media. You know what I mean? It wasn't just like, come here so we could shut you up. No, I was like, No, like, Okay, how can we appeal to other people in your market? And can we use these photos to move forward, even if the people of Maine aren't necessarily like acceptable They're like, no, we're setting the tone. This is how it's going to be from now on. So mains MC post is another one. Like I said, 10 pay tourism there, they've always been willing to have the conversation. They've always been been able to say, Marty, what can we do to move forward to appeal to more black people? You know, like, what things can we put on our website that you guys want to see? And they'll have all of this black history and 10 pairs on it and who knew, you know, so they always have their ears as I say to the streets, but they always have asked you like, what can we do to help you know your narratives a little bit better? So your other great.

Jessica Drucker: Wait, can we talk first of all, what are some of the details of the black history in temporary because I don't know that either. Yeah, so if you could share a couple of things about that. And then also, can you talk a little bit about like, so the brands or the tourist boards who appeal to black travelers because of the historical element there? Right so are so they do like black history tours, for example, but are they only marketing To black people, because my my next question really is like, as a white ally, shouldn't I also be going on these black tours and learning about black history? And so how, you know, how are they How are they making sure that they're really hitting the whole 360 on what it really means to be authentically diverse in their travel marketing.

Marty Lewis: Right. So Tim pay um, they do have a strong black community there. So there's like an African American festival that happens there that actually do to COVID ended up not happening because it was supposed to be in March, they like made sure that they included all black restaurants in our like itinerary. And then there's a very prominent woman who works at the university there that does a lot in terms of African American History and 10 pay. And so of course they were they were allowing us to meet with her. So they just made it apparent to like put those things in our actual pressure, even though our whole trip wasn't just focused on blacks and pay but they understood like no, you want to see people look like you when you come here. You want to know the neighborhoods, the restaurants Tourism boards doing a good job, they don't do a good job. They don't think most of them don't say like, Oh, this is this is the black community that you can come to because they don't even see it as a thing except Richmond, Richmond, Virginia. Yeah, Richmond Virginia's Tourism Board has a separate sector, specifically for black Richmond VA. And that's how you can find it on social media. It's black Richmond, VA where it's all about black history in Richmond, which it's actually phenomenal. We were like, Oh my gosh, like and they're so serious about it and it just is great and they support no madness all the time. So we were like wow, but you know, for for people like visit England to not talk about Tony's Black History walks tour that you can take, you know, or for, for me to go to Bristol and have to tell the lady from visit England, like when I'm here. I don't want to go to Coltrane Hall and I don't want to see his statue because he had slaves and you know, throughout this whole this whole equality issue. They pull this statute out. And I'm like, Well, good. You know, I'm like, I'm like that this is what I was telling you a few months back when I'm like, why is this on my itinerary? This doesn't serve its purpose to me. And that's why I say like, you also have to have people on the inside fighting because a black person on the inside would have been able to tell them like this can be offensive. So maybe we shouldn't have this on our overall press tour. Like, yes, it's a big part of their history. But slavery is a big part of everybody's history. That doesn't mean you glorify, you know, those things. And Bristol also Bristol, England has a huge Windrush story, and they left it completely out, I had to ask my tour guide while everybody was on lunch to take me to that area of Bristol. So I'm like, this is what I care about, like yes, I care about the graffiti, you know, yes. I care about those things that make Bristol Bristol but I also office black history that's only a block away. So it's just different things like that where it's like, have everybody at top of mind you know, even when I was in Bristol also I was I was traveling with my blind Travel friend. Fast he was also influencer. And afterwards, I didn't write a piece on how great Bristol was I wrote a piece on how fast he navigated through Bristol, so they can understand your destination is not reflective of somebody who's blind. It doesn't necessarily help her. You know what I mean? I'm like, if I wouldn't have been there, who was going to help her do all of these things, I'm renting it out. But my biggest thing was, you have us had a gin tasting class, right. But to even get to the place where we're having it, we went through three separate flights of stairs for seven flights of stairs from the outside, even once we got inside, she has her guide dog and she's about 411. But it's like you need to tell her there's five steep stairs before you get to the next one. And then there's seven steep stairs. And then there's seven more the bathrooms on the right if you need to come out and use about like, people need to be able to tell her that or like they had to do a graffiti class. The man is explaining how to do how to do the graffiti and he's saying Okay, so you got to stand like this and put your arm out like this, and I'm My art sassy. So I'm like, fast stand up. I'm like, put your legs like this and like their arm. And I'm like, he's saying do this motion from left to right. But if I would have never been there, how would she have been able to participate? Right? And that's like, they have to be able to start thinking about how everybody will come to their destination and experience it. And so like I said, Now, I think it's more Top of Mind than anything. But yeah, and now that I'm saying that I'm thinking, gosh, I should probably rerun that story. So more people are like, travelers are coming to your destination to you know, right.

Jessica Drucker: Well, I think that's what actually what's so good about the reporter that you do, because you are really looking at all of the different ways that travelers can be diverse. And I think you're bringing that to light too, because there's a little so for example, you know, a part of my day job is about like, I talked with tour operators, and they say to me things like Well, I I do travel with people in wheelchairs. So how many of the showers in this hotel that I'm not interested in that I sold them on this To come downtown and stay at this hotel, how many have rolling showers? And I'm like, Oh, you know what a hotel of 525 rooms has about five rolling showers but like that will make or break whether or not the tour can stay at that hotel, whether they can come downtown in New York City, because they don't have what's necessary for that group to come. And so those are things that I think the industry is still completely lagging behind in for sure. So we need voices like yours to really bring that to light. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about I'm sure your life has gone absolutely crazy recently. And like I said to you before, there's just no way that I can continue to talk about Coronavirus that, you know, yes, that is a major thing happening and we should all wear masks and not forget that it's happening. But the Black Lives Matter movement that's happening now is really changing the world and it really is global. Recently You are a part of the founding group of the black travel Alliance. Talk a little bit about the black travel Alliance and maybe how your world has exploded over the last couple of weeks.

Marty Lewis: Yeah. So I always tell brands like when you do something ridiculous, no, we're always talking about it because there's a Facebook group called Black and Brown travelers in black and brown bloggers, I travel conferences, and we talk about everything the industry is doing. And one day, somebody said, Do you see all these brands? who posted this black square on on today? And we're like, yeah, they're like, they have their nerve. And we're like, really, though, we were thinking the same thing. Like these brands won't even work with us. They won't return our phone calls. When we ask them to work with us. They pay us pennies. And we're like, yeah, let's read them for Phil. And one of our friends were like, so what are we gonna do about it? And we're like, yeah, cuz we need to stop talking about it. And now we need to actually apply pressure and ask them since you say you stand with us and solidarity, you know, where's that proof? So we did start the black travel Alliance and not only for this specific campaign that everybody's been saying that's called pull up for travel. But we started it because we're like, we have to Worked 10 times harder to get the same opportunity to get paid less. And we're like, cut out the middleman. We don't have to ask for a seat of the table or fight for a CEO table. We just make our own table. And we're like, Okay, let's do that. Let's start something specifically for black travel industry perfect professionals, where we create this ecosystem for each other. If somebody doesn't have money to go to a WTF, let's be able to give a scholarship for those people to be able to have you should Dyer has a group that sends 12 under disadvantaged girls from Philadelphia to Paris every year, let's be able to make a contributor bowl donation to heart thing if somebody camera goes out and they don't have enough money to get another one. Let's be able to give them a scholarship so that they can get a better camera so that they can be the best industry professional that they can be. You know, it's a it's a, if a Tourism Board comes to us and says okay, we want this black shop or in this black diamond bachelor, but we don't know where to find them, we've now created the biggest database, you know, for black travel creators, we can now charge them for this. So they can't, they can't say we can't find any more because we've created for you and we're going to charge you for it so that the money that we get from that you can put back out into our community, let's go up against the bigger people that don't give us the same editorial opportunities to tell our narratives and share our stories and travel magazines, and any type of travel newspapers or articles. So it's a it's a whole ecosystem. We we started it not realizing like how big it was gonna be. And then I think shortly after you're like, Oh my gosh, this has the potential to be so much more than we even thought. And we saw that after we released the campaign and Tourism Board start saying, Hey, we want to do a fam trip with all of your founding members so that you can come here and people saying, Hey, we have money and we want to donate it to you guys. You guys can donate to other people and then surf schools in Laguna Beach are saying, Hey, we have the surf school and we want to be able to send a kids of color here for the summer for free, why every now on, it's so many different elements to it, that we had no idea was gonna come from it. But there are 14 of us who work around the clock because we're all throughout the US, the UK and the EU. And we're just passionate about making sure we have the same opportunities. And especially now when people are willing to listen, we're like, oh, now show us who do you have on your team? Because we want to point out the deficit in the industry because they try to act like it wasn't a problem for the longest time or like it's been a problem and we've been saying this you know, so it's not only what your team looks like internally, it's who you choose to write anything who you invite on press trips it's true you use in your images on your social media, you know, it's it's if you say to Evie and I for audacity Fest, yes, will will support you but only for $5,000 and for one year, but then you got a nomadic Matt and you'll say for travel con, we'll give you a three year contract and we'll give you $20,000 Yeah, we want to bring that to the forefront, which people you know, it's one of those things where we're like, and no shades in tomat at all, but I'm just saying, like, those are the things that happen. And it's like, it's crazy to us. But we're like, no more, we're like no more. So it's a community for us by us to make sure that everybody gets a seat at the table, and it makes sure that we are the best industry professionals we can be and have the best resources to do so. So we're really, really excited about it.

Jessica Drucker: And you know what, it's crazy, but you know, that you've done like the perfect thing when everybody says to you, there wasn't something like that before and you're like, nope, but there is now but like, that's, that's the the key is you as soon as you made it, they came. I mean, the timing, the timing is obviously just right for all of this. 

Marty Lewis: Yeah, that's, that's amazing. no better time than now.

Jessica Drucker: That's right. And you but you took such I mean, 14 of you, but you took such like quick, decisive action to do something great.

Marty Lewis: We literally created that campaign within about four days. And just when I say worked around, let's clock all of us were doing our part. It was actually incredible. And I think every time we all get on a phone call, which is about twice a week, we just say how proud of how proud of each other we are, and how just continuously encouraging each other because people are expecting us to fail. They're like, Oh, this is just, this is just the moment I'm like, Nah, it's a movement. And I want you to understand that and we are not letting up off the gas. And for people who didn't respond in the 72 hours from last Tuesday, last Friday, we're now calling them out. And we're okay with doing that. Because you posted a black square, it'd be different if you didn't say anything. But you posted a black square and said we stand in solidarity with you. Yeah, well, how? Because we want to know how you know, and additionally, because black travelers spend so much like you are missing the opportunity to really engage with our community and we know we spend this money with you, right?

Jessica Drucker: And and what is the numbers at 50 billion or what's the number?

Marty Lewis: 3 billion, and even then so mon dollar research is the person who comes out with these numbers every five years. And I didn't realize So recently, I've never known anybody who they've surveyed. And on top of that, it's not a large number of people. So I'm like, how is this reflective of the food industry, and it's only African Americans. Now, if you want to think about it like this, African Americans spend 63 billion, but that does not include the EU and the UK, right? Who has tons of Africans or people of the Diaspora there, they have just about a whole month's more worth of time, and they make quite much more than we do. And they travel up to three times more than we do. So there's no telling what they spent, it's easy for them to go from London to Ibiza, or go from London to Marbella or London to Thailand, because it's so cheap, right? It costs us way more. So what they're doing is so much more than us. And I'm like, if we spent 63 billion, they have to at least be spending 83 billion, like at least and that's just at the very least sound like imagine what we can do once we know those numbers. So even With that, I've been working with different universities who actually are doing data research on this because I want to be able to have numbers. If I can talk numbers to brands, which I do all the time, they're more likely to listen to me because numbers don't lie. You know. So if I can say we spent 63 billion, and we're going places internationally for four more nights, and on international trips are spending anywhere from 2500 to three, three, I'm sorry, to 3000 and internationally and domestically, we're spending anywhere from 700 to 1500. Over three nights, I like the fact that I can say those things. So then they're like, oh, okay, but I used to do that for free. I'll do that for free anymore.

Jessica Drucker: And what about loyalty? Because I know at least for me, like if a company Marvis to me and they show me two women who have a baby, which is exactly my life, I'm like, I'm staying at your hotel, I'll stay there. Again, I'll suggest to friends that they stay there. I mean, the loyalty is is completely there for me. What about for Is there a way or is there data that shows what loyalty there is? Because I feel like that's that's an underestimated factor in our types of conversations.

Marty Lewis: Yeah, so with the black travel community, a lot of things goes through word of mouth. So we can see that a company visibly rocks with a black traveler, we're like, oh, go here, support them. Like, right here. Like, that's how we are. But you know, it's so funny because, like you're saying you want to see yourself reflective. So, travelers spend the most period, they're not on anything. They have the most money. Muslim travelers are luxury travelers, they spend money on travel, and we've seen them nowhere. So just imagine if we started seeing them in different places, how much more money brands would get. And it's almost like brands are afraid to rock the boat but for what, like money is all the same color like period, like you know, money is all it's all currency. So it doesn't matter who's spending it because your brand is you know, actually reflecting often so you would think that brands would do more things to be loyal, but they don't.

Jessica Drucker: Is it just the marketing right how people look in the in the, in the marketing that they put out or it Is it because there aren't any black people on staff? I mean, is it really effective like from the inside out, you are not as diverse as you say you want to be.

Marty Lewis: It's both because I have met some teams that would have like a Latino, gay man, Asian female, and like a white man for diversity. And they do great. Like they say, okay, we didn't, you know, put out this view because they have some type of diversity. And that's the thing, when you are a minority, you are going to go hard for all everybody who fits into that minority category, or everybody was in a specific niche. So I think that helps. But additionally, people do want to see themselves I mean, multicultural travelers and 70% more likely to go to places where they see themselves reflected. So if I if all of a sudden, the Czech Republic is showing black people in their social media or even in their actual like, videos that they create, guess where black people are going, I'll never forget. Visit Estonia recently put out a video where there's a Black Girl Rising up I'm going, and I sent the young lady an email because I happen to meet her but I'm like, you don't know what that meant for me. You know what I mean? He's waving at you I'm like and then they like you don't want to thank me and that's all it takes literally that's all it takes.

Jessica Drucker: At least to pique your curiosity right at least to be like Estonia wasn't gonna wasn't gonna go there now. Yeah, right. Yeah, absolutely. That's That's really funny. Um, so now that you have this alliance, especially and I'm sure obviously you know, a ton of black traveler travel bloggers or people in the industry but who can people listening follow so who are some of names I don't know playing favorites, but top of mine, who are people so no madness, obviously, you know, is the one of the coolest travel groups just on the internet to be a part of First of all, um, and you know, that I love No madness, like since 2011. I've been in that group. But what are some other like, key bloggers that show that also just do like fun, really interesting content not only talking about the meta of black travel, but also just like showing amazing things along the way.

Marty Lewis: Yeah, I would say if you're looking for black travel movement, um, one that I always say is my friend xabier, who runs black voyagers, which is out of Paris, France. And it's a different it's a different, a different approach to black travel, because he now is showcasing a lot of people from Africa, Paris, Germany, so whereas black, the black travel movement, America shows a lot of black American influences. So I always love seeing who they post as well, because it introduces me to a lot of people adebola who is my breaking views. Interestingly enough, she was a young lady who got arrested at the Acropolis for apparently wearing inappropriate dress, but nothing was wrong for her with her dress and it ended up being a racial issue. So they took her to jail and no madness. We basically blasted it out. So we were able to get her lawyer. We were able to make sure that she was saved and that the next day all of her cases were dropped. But as you can imagine, it's very traumatic for her. And the reason we know it was raised because there are so many people who go there and were disrespectful stuff, and she just had on the white dress. I wore white dress when I went to the Acropolis to this the whole Greek goddess theme, right? So um, she has she is a great travel blogger in general. And she also puts an emphasis in food and she is out of London, England. dip your toes in my favorite travel couple, Yolanda and omo. They're just amazing when it comes to content. It doesn't matter if it's food. It doesn't matter if it's dance. It doesn't matter if they're exploring turkey on a yacht like everything they put out as amazing minority Nomad, Erik Prince Lola animatic, actress from out of Sweden. She's amazing. Um, if you want to see how costly So many people want to see plus size travel within the black community, chubby diaries Jeff Jenkins doctor may been white underwear who is by night actual, actual doctor and by day a travel blogger with the emphasis on wine. I mean, there's so many different people if you want to see traveling families, there's negra bohemian, there's Karen Akpan with the mom Trotter, there's Monet Hamburg with the traveling child. So many different people age Muslim, you got Charlotte Simpson, the traveling Black Widow. I mean, there's so many people who I love and adore in this space. He wants to be a Muslim black traveler Karima. He jogged globetrotter there's just there's there's so many different people of course my boss my sister, my friend, Evie to Robinson rondelle holder, Philip Calvert, Phil Waukee. When collective can't forget the wind collective clan Dwayne and Camille sorry when collective that has so much powerful imagery more than likely, if anybody has seen my name and any article this week. pictures that are in those articles are all wind collective. But there's so many people jabril with passport heavy Kelly Edwards How could I forget what Kelly said? Go? GLORIA Tata Motors low graphics. Oh, Nika. Oh Nico, the traveler. I mean, there's so many people karpin who's been around for the longest time loyalty travels this there's, there's tons of people.

Jessica Drucker: I am going to include every single person you just send in the show notes with a link to their blog every single is my challenge for the week because I want to find every single one.

Marty Lewis: So many and as you can imagine, these past few weeks, we've been getting a ton of followers because all of a sudden, you know, people are like, oh, follow these black travelers were like, Okay, thank you. But you know, what is your real purpose of being yours because you feel guilty or is it because you actually want to learn what we're talking about? Sorry, three more as I'm thinking I'm like, Oh, you can't this girl's out. Ashley from Hey, Ashley, Renee. Francesca, who's whose birthday is actually today one girl on girl. Ashley. Ready? Stay ready. This is sorry one more Travis. Travis levy is amazing. journalist has wrote for every single publication on the site, one more GAVI. Yeah, traveler, Gabby back bird. And then Okay, I'm done. If I think anybody else, I'm just not gonna say them. But that that's a great variety of different types of travel content creators.

Jessica Drucker: Tell me if I'm wrong, tell me if this isn't right. But I feel personally that as a white ally of everything that you're talking about, I should also be going on tours, that Talk Talk to me about the black history in a location, how things are interconnected. One of the coolest things that ever did was go on the what is it called? Is it like spirit of Paris walks? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, it's sort of years ago. Yeah. So there's three different black pair shorts. Now there's little Africa tours, there's le parish Noir. And then there's African parish tours. What it did was it opened my eyes. I mean, I know that they speak French in Africa for a reason. I know that there's a diaspora in France for a reason for us, like black Americans went to went to France to sort of escape their American assets. But that changed my whole view of Europe of the US of the relationship. I mean, it completely expanded my mind. So I just want to make sure that if you had maybe like five of these kinds of tours that you want to recommend.

Marty Lewis: Yeah. So there is one in New Orleans there is Alex Rocha in Cartagena Colombia experience real carton at or where you take you to Palenque, which is the first freed African blind like African village like so they were the first place to ever escape slavery globally and their their actual town is still as possible making or how you get the word Palenque. That you see and all the pictures. Amsterdam is Jennifer Toss black Amsterdam towards black history walks is London. Tony Naki is African Lisbon tours and Lisbon Portugal, and then Dobby is The Paris Noir, but that's the blackest one of the black history toward in Paris and Ricky Stevens also has a black pair of History tour and there's another one little Africa, but I can't remember the young lady's name is Jessica, but I can't remember her last name, but those are six right there. The one in Kansas City Missouri cuz they're all over the place. They really are well.

Jessica Drucker: And they are and I think people should look for them where they go because I mean seeing the top sites fine, right? But like this is one of the most interesting and relevant things I think. To make those choices.

Marty Lewis: Absolutely and they're within the things that you think we just didn't know what they'll think was like we're going to be It's for the whole tour. The red light district somebody said tons of people go when they go to answer them and they said to her there's no black history in Amsterdam and literally black people are on the building. Like, I look up and there's this black face because slavery was a status symbol people who you have money if your slaves on your building, but it was a there's no black people. It's like hello, like obviously this man looks like my grandfather right here. This is my brother right here. You can imagine she still is finding you a new face. Place to even try to figure out who these plays are going. It's it's incredible or even something like going through the museum and looking at the more pictures and you just see two black faces on the end of this like and this was done in 1776. You guys think there's no black history here. But who are these two black people were obviously here so it's just it's incredible. And again, this is in the red light district some place that people walk through all the time and literally all they have to do is look up with like little black boy. This man, you know, it's literally like that. So it's fascinating. It's one of the best ones I've ever taken and like I tell people just like you're saying use your privileges your platform to go there and speak to your community about it because your followers about it and then submit these type of things to your editor. You know, I remember for his magazine to be able to talk about that tour because United is hemispheres hemispheres United in-flight magazine. They find Amsterdam. Why isn't the store in there is no no coming. That's definitely possible. TripAdvisor but I'm like no like the whole world needs to know about this amount of capita Amsterdam kids so great amazing.

Jessica Drucker: And so where can people find you? 

Marty Lewis:  Yes, so I'll cross. The defy me and Marty uninformed San Diego and then my website is marked can handle.com but I also encourage you to follow the magic tribe to definitely learn about black travel history and black diaspora history. And yeah, I released a book on August 1st to take president off of the green. That was around between the 1930s and 1960s at Victor Hugo bring created for African Americans to know where they can go to the state and America. So I took the pain of that but instead of the good American. I find all the black businesses that actually asked by continent country Sydney. So it's taken me two years to compile all the information you're supposed to additionally come out in March particular virus happened and I was like, I don't know if you know a lot of them are a lot of them are barber shops a lot of them are tactics. And then all of this stuff happened. And now black is getting so much love and I'm like now is the time because going 21 might be back traveling and I want people to go and visit these places, you know, if we think a woman 

Jessica Drucker: What do you think is the future of and let's make it really simple but the future of black travel after this incredible movement is happening right now

Marty Lewis: Destination for the black population of the black businesses will grow from indigenous people will be visiting their tremendously because this is the same information for putting out for however long you want to visually have invited them out. But now that we have  Now that we have everybody hears and I even more now there is an information overload and I really do believe that people truly want to be allies will go over the place. So I think that the black carbon she will continue to grow now that Brans know and understand that everybody's watching them. They will continue to use black influencers, but they will start to share our stories and our travel narratives and that's going to make a huge difference because we will influence, you know, the Greater Community but a lot of Brands now have heard. As a driver to bring more people there. So yeah. I think it's definitely going to grow.

Jessica Drucker: You are amazing. I am so glad that we were able to talk. Yeah, thank you so much.

Marty Lewis: Thank you for having me ready to talk to you.

*Transcribed by https://otter.ai AI transcription service. Please excuse any errors